Mental Disorders

[nateaus]

[quote][i]I was married many years ago for near enough 20 years to a pilot who, I now realise, has an OCPD. Information about this wasn't available so long ago, but I now know this was the problem I was trying to contend with. Since then, I've qualified as a psychologist and worked with people with all kinds of problems in their lives, so I've developed an interest in it, for the sake of my children and grandchildren, all of whom find the man a great puzzle, however much they might enjoy being with him for a short time. No one can cope with him for long.
I have little to offer by way of advice except this:
1. Do you love this person enough to be prepared for a life-time test of your endurance? If you think you do, then you need to follow some of these ideas.
2. Detach yourself emotionally. Imagine, for example, you are watching, being with, the child of a neighbour, so you're observing what goes on. This is not easy, particularly when the OCPD sufferer (whom I shall refer to from now on as Perfie) is having a whinge about something that's wrong around the place, or even your behaviour. It has to go like this: Perfie gets going on some topic. Smile very quietly at Perfie. Nod. Say, 'Ok. What have I got to do?' Imagine you're floating on a cloud, or watching a TV screen. Just hang on and wait to see what Perfie does. If Perfie throws a tantrum, make a swift judgment about whether it's safe to stay around.
3. Accept that you will never be able to communicate effectively with Perfie. Perfie's head is full of what Perfie believes and needs. It's a desperately sad state to be in, so Perfie is someone to pity. You will never win in a 'power struggle', whether it's over tidiness, perfection in something that's to be done, or in a conversation. Shrug your shoulders metaphorically and float on your cloud.
4. The only way I eventually managed to live more or less peacefully with my own Perfie (until he decided he didn't want me any more) was to mark out in my own mind taboo topics, taboo things, all of which I systematically avoided. In the end, these things came to matter less and less to me. So the key is AVOIDANCE. It's certainly like walking around egg shells or a quicksand, but if you love your Perfie enough, maybe that's the price. Oddly enough, you get used to it in the end. It goes with the territory. No one's perfect. Interestingly, I'm now married to someone who's the total opposite and that's almost as difficult! So I float, float past the junk, the shambles and just love the guy for his sweet self! Hope this helps![/i]
[/quote]

Rose,

I specifically joined this thread after reading your post, as I wanted to make a personal reply to you and also follow up with one to the rest of the thread.

Firstly I am researching OCPD as my therapist suggested that i have some of the traits and it may be useful to look at some of the treatment strategies to use as tools when I am feeling stressed out or over-controlling about a situation or through a say a ceratin period. Sitting here with my partner, we have had a bit of a laugh about some of the points, as we can both see that I definitely possess some of the traits and mindset of OCPD. I believe I possess more introspection and self-awareness then the average person, and have spent my life trying to become more self aware and rid myself of some of my negative traits and scaring.

I understand how horrible it can be to live with someone with any disorder, be it mild or extreme. But what I was very disappointed to read was that you are a psychologist and then you reply with a very unproductive.

I personally found your post to be very emotive and bias. I believe that a better to post would have been to separate your personal opinions and experiences with OCPD from your qualification and professional opinion as a psychologist.

Have you ever stopped to think what has happened for the person to be that way? What happened in there childhood or up bringing that helped to engineer them to think in such linear terms and be so rigid and stubborn? Do you think being obsessive is fun? Do you think that one day obsessive people just woke up and said "I think I am going to obsess over fine details and alienate and distance myself from those people around me from which I love". No, the reality is it is not fun, and it is actually the opposite, have OCPD (or any disorder) actually causes a lot of distress to the individual. Not being able to disassociate from outcomes and relinquish control is a very upsetting thing. Whether it is self-engineered stress, doesn´t make it any less stressful.

Plus relationship problems are never completely one-sided, it takes two to tango and we all have positive ways to respond to situations and relationship, even if the positive way is deciding to move on. And you should know that better then anyone, if you are indeed a psychologist.

So for the greater good of the thread and for the greater good of the people that have come here looking for some knowledge, understanding, relief, and a place to express their concerns, BE OBJECTIVE, NOT EMOTIVE and if you are going to quote your profession as some point of authority or knowledge and it is indeed psychology as you say (which directly relates to and influences the thread), then BE PROFESSIONAL! As if some of your peers reviewed your post, I am sure they would agree it is in no way professional or therapeutic.

For the rest of the people in the thread, it can be helped, it just comes down to the extent of the OCPD and how much your partner (and you) are willing to work on it. But that is a decision only you can make, though the help of a good therapist (eg, one not like Rose) is a great starting point and would def help you in clarifying what is their stuff, what is yours and what can be done about both. Thus providing a good foundation for the future of the relationship, or for the future of you as an individual.

Regards,
Nate[quote][/quote]

[kit kat]

I have also joined this forum as the result of Rose' post, but as opposed to the above user, it is because she has given me hope for a way of dealing with my husband through the tough times.
Rose - if you ever read this, thank you so much for writing those lines. I appreciate them because you have been there, and you understand it from a professional point of view, and so you are able to share this with us in "normal terms". You´re not analysing the situation (anyone who ends up here has googled enough to see there are 1001 analysis of OCPD out there) but you are giving a kind of first-aid 101 info to deal with this.

To nateaus: I also completely respect your point of view, and value your input, as someone who is affected by this all. I can also understand that when you read about someone saying they would "float" around you and "avoid" many things, it would be frustrating and make you feel angry (meaning, I would!). But please note that she is not directing this at you, rather at those family members who are dealing with a person who is currently causing them extreme emotional distress. I see both sides - I sense your frustration (and that of my husband), and I have suffered greatly on my side, until this probable OCPD diagnosis has been made. Now, I can start seeing things for what they are, stop feeling guilty and start making steps to deal with my husband in a way that I will no longer be emotionally damaged again and again.

I have a question, can anyone here say that they have seen their partner (with OCPD) go through good times and bad times? Can you identify any factors which caused an improvement or a worsening of the behaviour?

I have seen my husband improve after he made a religious pilgrimage (about 3 years ago). I had decided that that was the last chance I could give him, or I would have to leave him (despite our 3 kids). I was not aware of OCPD at the time, but it had become so so difficult to be with him. Things were relatively ok for a few years. Then we decided to move to another country (my idea), actually to where he comes from. He was very positive and really over the past year I thought he was finally back to his normal self, and sure that I´d made the right choice. Now the move is only a few months away, of course, things are getting stressful. Esp. because his work situation is not as stabil as he´d hoped (crisis) and because we don´t actually have a place there yet (to be solved soon). He´s definately gone downhill again, I see him sinking.
.....Is there anything I can do to support him right now (keeping in mind, yes, that I can not control his behaviour?). ??????

Thanks to all, sorry this was long
kit kat

[jld64]

It is so nice to hear that I am not alone. My friends and family can't see it. I am depressed. I am seeing a therapist and that has helped me to realize what is going on. I am looking for a support group outside my therapist. I can't talk to anyone else. They think he is perfect.

[jld64]

I have found several books about OCPD but this book is the one I keep by my bed. [u]Treatment of Obsessive & Compulsive Behaviors [/u]by Leon Salzman. I find it to be the most through and comprehensive. The other books that I have read list this book in their bibliographies.

OCPD people don't get better, things may calm down or they may switch obsessions, but they are always obsessive. It will come out in stressful times. My husband is currently unemployed and I am seeing it now.

I think you can't take pity on them because of why they are this way. I think my husband has it in his genes. I know his father and grandfather and his brothers, all the same characteristics. My husband was not abused. If anything he was rescued in his behavior and it has been reinforced. OCPD people feel love the most when their loved one feels guilty. My mother-in-law feels guilty and tries to rescue him all the time. It is a battle because I want him to be accountable.

I have felt sorry for him at time. I think he does torture himself sometimes as he work at being right or making the right decision. He worries and frets. I have decided the best thing for me and him is for me to decisive and firm. It is painful to try to make decision together.

[ChemGirl]

Hi Guys,

I wish I could help you all or suggest something that can fix your OCPD- loved one. I can't. I am in the same sorry boat as you. I am just glad I have someone that I can share my story.
My husband has had OCD & GA for 20 years or more. He is almost 50 now. I suspose now that as I look back, I should have seen that the OCPD was there all along.
I am very discouraged. There are meds & lots of them. Anxiety attacks. There are treatments that are sporatic. Underneath it is a man who does love me but struggles daily with anxiety, depression, & behaviors that have made him generally unemployable. He is self employed, but would make more money working as counter help at the local coffee shop. (Plus, there are no expenses.)
When we married I had no idea since we did not live together. Other than a cronic procrastinator and ocassional argumentitive ass, I felt that his serious nature was just a product of his terrible childhood. He was abused by his mother, brother and mentally ill aunts. His father was too busy drinking to rescue him.
He realized the OCD by watching a TV show about it. Then came the meds: first prozac, then zoloft, then lexapro, welbutrin & topamax. Sometimes no meds.
Then there was the issue with holding a job. One layoff after another. Probably, more than 12 in 25 years. Clearly there was more to this than I could imagine.
In the past year I felt his meds were wearing off or something else was bothering him. I asked and got accused of nagging him like scratching at a scab. That argument lasts hours at a time. The strange part here is that he went away on business for 4 days, and for 3 weeks prior to the trip he was Mr. Wonderful, and treated me like gold. I thought "what happened"? He hadn't told me about having to go on the trip and we could not afford it. But somehow, the need to go on the trip made great improvements in his behavior. Before he left he promised that when he returned he would get a job. Then he came back home and it was back to Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hide; and walking on eggs. No, he couldn't do that job or the other job or any job I pointed out. I suggested a security position. Well, you would think I was trying to waterboard him!
I don't know what else to do. I am seeing a counselor on Friday - in the same office as his Psyc doctor.
I am very worried that I will loose my home. This month will be very difficult as we may not be able to pay all the bills. Next month will be very bad.
Does anyone have any suggestions for a better treatment? I live in New England, USA.

[IJA]

I have known for a while that my husband of 22 years is a classic case of OCPD. But it is such personal battle. We (myself and my children) have molded our lives around what would cause the least amount of agitation. He holds us up to his selfmade strict codes of conduct moral values. He comes across very religious but if i say God ask you treat your wife with respct...often he would say that he is doing it for my betterment. He judges ppl and expect me to habor the same dislike for them that he has. He tells me he know what's best for me...or alway trying to fix me. hemake derogatory comments and no matter waht i do --he is never happy. he doent like the fact that i can have close relation ship with other---if iam nice to others then i am being subservient to them. Evrything will be fine if i only listend to him---been there done that --no result. Its like walking on eggshell
I have tried so many diff things...talking to him, therapy, arguing, getting others involved ...over the years --nothing worked.
I have come to the conclusion that i have to make up my mind if i want to be with him or not. i love him too much to leave him--i feel sorry for him and now i am trying to organize my life by being strong and not take things too personally. I donot volunteer infomation...but i dont lie like i use to stop getting him all upset over something trivial. I told my children that their Dad's not always right and it is important to have personal space and freedom.
Never the less its a constant battle....some days are worse than other. I know there is no real treatment .....i still have hope

[Shallom]

Hi everyone out there
A week ago I discovered my husband had OCPD. All these years I used to wonder why he is the way he is. Why he could not accept another's viewpoint ? Why he cannot be flexible and understanding ? why he cannot compliment or appreciate but only criticise?
Twenty years of marriage have been a roller coaster ride. I have had to walk on egg shells. I can make him happy only by accepting his critical view points.
Its a relief to know that I am not to blame. I seriously used to think that I am not good enough for him. Now I know that there is a label for his disorder and there are others like me.
But there have been good times too. Like how he shares in the housework with the criticisms of course. As long as you turn a deaf ear it is OK. Thanks for the tip to float and be detached

[journey1]

I share many similarities with all of the posts here. Married for 23 years, a child and a husband that controlled everything. Generally making life a living hell. My daughter & I ended up in counseling. My therapist thought he might be OCD at the least and needed more help than I did. I had already suggested to him that someone out there could help him & was met with a very scary, angry responce, so I never brought it up again. My therapist suggested that I go to talk with a mentor at the local domestic abuse shelter. The power & contol, intimidation, criticisim, and violence are all domestic abuse! To you out there that are staying w/ your mates- be careful, watch for escalations of violence or dominance and be prepared to get out in a hurry if the time comes when it's to dangerous to stay. Make a plan! I admire those of you that are trying to work on your relationships. I left,with MDD,BPD,GAD,& PTSD, some of which were caused by my trying to be the right person and do the right things so he wouldn't go off. Yes, my disorders didn't help things, but I was willing to get help and am still getting my life back. As my therapist said " I have many clients with OCD and they're not abusive." Don't feel sorry or guilty for not meeting the standards or because he/she has a mental illness . Decide what's best for you and your family. I wish my ex would have gotten help, I know things would have turned out differently. Thanks for listening & watch out for those RED FLAGS of danger.

[Ruby]

My husband has OCPD. I'm here looking for tips on coping.
I love him and he loves me the best he can given the OCPD.
He has family members with OCPD especially his mother who I dislike.
Over the past 3 years I've lost all my friends, am depressed with chronic anger, my self-esteem and confidence are very low and I've gained 15-20 pounds.
There has been some improvement over the past year because I started to speak up and yell! Plus some counselling has helped.
I have noticed the withdrawal/avoidance method is effective in controlling the beast. And my husband, to his credit, does at times recognize what he's doing and will laugh and stop.
But I'm a wreck at the moment. Here a sample of stuff that goes on:
The constant criticizing of everyone and everything, almost everyone is a moron and not smart. The abnormal obsession with money. Money is King and controls all aspects of our lives. The obsession with details. The terrible social skills and rudeness especially with new people. (I've just decided I will not try to meet new people with him anymore. I plan to find new friends for me). No spontaneity for even the most trivial of things...constant consultation with him over the most minor of activities, the rules and regulations about how the house is to be maintained, the obsessive need for security of house/possessions.
I once threw out some food that had spoiled in the fridge. He saw this and said that was wasting money and because I was throwing the food out it must mean I enjoyed wasting money! Lots of logic in that, right?
He's into threats for me and others, for example...if you do this then I will do something that will make you cry.....finally I called him on his threats and he stopped. I also recently told him to stop making threats about others.....I couldn't stand it anymore! It's a nasty control tactic.
Hope to be posting here again. Thanks!

[Ruby]

Re: nateus post.

Congratulations on your desire to learn more about your OCPD. I wish you luck.

Your criticism of Rose's post is exactly why we need this forum. You are entitled to your opinion but I believe Rose posted just fine. No one else seems to have taken exception to her post, in fact just the opposite.

Her post has helped me.

You portrayed your OCPD in fine form. I thought for the longest time that I was responsible for how my husband treated me until I saw that he treated others the same way and then I knew it wasn't me. It does take two to tango but when one has a diagnosed personality disorder then that is not really true then, is it?

[ind_fam]

My husband has been diagnosed with OCPD. We have been married for nine year .

[SunshineJ]

Hello all,

I only learned about OCPD about a year ago. I was best friends with someone who had OCPD. He told me, in the beginning, that he had OCD, but I think he was diagnosed with OCPD and just told everyone that he had OCD because OCD is more acceptable, or maybe he has both. We had a very tumultuous friendship for three years. I could never figure out these rages that would come out of nowhere. I could never understand why when I expressed how I was feeling or indicate that I also had needs that he would get so bent out shape and be really nasty to me. He would literally become a raving lunatic, saying all kinds of hurtful things to me.

I cared deeply for him because he was my best friend, so I just didn't understand why or how he could be so vicious, and I would forgive him and move on, seriously thinking that it must be me. His behavior baffled me for a long time. The breaking point in our friendship came when I made a request of him, and he just went off on me. The background of the situation involved him getting offered a new position somewhere else and me being offered his position. He seemed to think that me being friends with him was a plus and helped me get that position(I have since found out that this was not the case; in fact, the opposite was true). Of course, I knew control was an issue with him, but I had no idea that he would want to control exactly how I did my job (and of course, he wanted me to do it the way that he'd done it...never mind that he had moved to a different organization and wasn't even around).

At the time this job offer came, I was experiencing a lot of other stress in my life--a major home improvement project, a sick child, a car that needed repaired, and the anxiety of starting a new job for a new organization. Anyway, he took it upon himself to bombard me with emails of advice after advice, and it was all ludicrous advice, too. I finally asked him to "please stop." I told him that I really, really needed him to be someone whom I could come to on my own and say, "I need you." You would think that I had just slashed his tires or something like that. He accused me of "ripping him a new a-hole," and I thought, HUH? At that point, I had had enough and told him to go take a hike.

After we parted ways, I came across an article on OCPD written by Dr. Phillipson ("The Right Stuff"), and I immediately knew that this former friend had OCPD. Everything, and I mean everything, made sense at that point.

Recently, I took it upon myself to present him with one of my pastor's sermons on Pride. I didn't see him face-to-face but left it for him at his place of work. I then received a very ugly email from him in which he took scripture and showed how I had sinned under each scripture. He then said that he had spies where I worked and that they would report back to him about what I would say or do. He then said I was the one who was mentally ill, that I distorted the truth, etc. It was very, very nasty and clear evidence of his mental illness and the continued "projection" of his character flaws onto me. I was, however, able to respond without getting bent out of shape and just laughing it off (because seriously, who keeps a list of all of your transgressions? Only someone with OCPD would do that!) and told him that he looked like a raving lunatic when he sent me emails like that; that I didn't have to justify myself to him because it was God's job to judge me, not his, and God offers grace and forgiveness, and that I didn't live my life for him, so I didn't really care how he judged me or criticized me. Apparently, my words must've gotten through because he then became rather conciliatory, with the exception of threatening me with some sort of legal ramifications if I didn't leave him alone. I gently reminded him that any legal proceedings would make everything that he ever confessed to me a matter of public record, and did he really want his dirty laundry to become public? I have found that pushing back tends to get better results that giving in, but as one person pointed out (Rose, perhaps?), you can never communicate effectively with someone who has OCPD.

It is comforting, though, to know that it wasn't me who was the problem, and I'm so relieved to know that others have experienced the same type of abuse. I just feel sorry for his wife and children, as I'm quite sure he is much worse with them than he ever was with me. He lives a life of denial, but unfortunately, I can't do anything about it.

[Tripp]

I just got back from my marriage counselor's and I feel kind of dumb because for all these years I thought my wife was diagnosed with OCD and it really is OCPD that she has.

I've been married for 27 years and I wonder if my wife intentionally misled me about her diagnosis? I don't know. What I do know is that after reading all I could find about OCPD most all of it pertains to my wife, and things make so much more sense now.

In a way I am lucky because I am a big man and my wife's hits never could really hurt me. Also, I never thought things were my fault - I guess I am too pig-headed to fault myself, but Lord over the years she has tried to tear me down. We are Catholic and I made a vow, and we have four kids, so I've stuck it out the best I can.

All I can say to the rest of you is that I know, at least a little, what you put up with, probably every day, and you need to know, in your heart, that this is NOT about you at all. For me I fell in love and married someone who later developed OCPD. It may have been the same with you, and if so you could not have predicted this. I wish I had some advice or comfort, but I haven't found any really good advice. Try to avoid confrontation, and try to remember that despite what you hear it is your spouse who has the problem, not you, and instead of criticism you deserve a huge amount of recognition!! You won't get it, which is a pity, but please know at least some people know what it is like for you, and we need to do the right thing because it is right, not because there is a reward, even when it is deserved. If they ever developed a pill for this it would be a real blessing, and that's the truth.

[StepMom]

I have never before posted to a forum like this, but I have to tell you what a relief it is to find a place where I can vent about my stepson who has OCPD. I will call him Ty, for Tyrant.

Every day is a challenge. He is 30, smart, highly educated (MIT!!!) and absolutely impossible to live with. I met him when he was a little kid, and he was delightful. I've been his stepmom for over 20 years, and the changes in his personality have come about in the last 10 - 12 years. It was like we sent one kid to college and he came home a different person.

He is rigid, controlling, nasty, eccentric, miserly, angry, sneaky, uncooperative and vindictive. He can also be funny, interesting, helpful, and (sort of) caring. It all depends on whether or not he has stress in his life.

He lost his job eight months ago (his boss told him that being highly intelligent would only get him so far. His arrogance and open belief that everyone who is not him is an idiot would be his downfall. It was.)

Once he lost his job, his miserly tendencies kicked in and he moved back home with us. Bad enough that a 30-year-old man who could easily afford to support himself (even without working) would move in with Mommy & Daddy, but when he lives here everything has to change to accommodate HIM. And if we don't change things voluntarily, he will change them for us if we are foolish enough to leave the house for a few hours.

There are no boundaries, except HIS. He is willing to do some cleaning, but not without pointing out that it is because I am inadequate in this area. If I do clean, he feels compelled to re-clean afterward, while pointing out that I am incompetent. He throws out things that belong to me because, in his opinion, I have "too much stuff." (They really need to take the "hoarding" criteria out of the DSM for OCPD.)

If asked to help with something, he may agree to do it, but if he is to help, then it must be done HIS way, according to HIS timetable. And he makes these requirements so onerous, that it's better not to ask for his help. So he does NOTHING around the house, except to "fix" what I do wrong.

He took the computers that belong to his father and me (without permission) and put all kinds of "security" software on them, and I swear he monitors everything I do on my computer. I know he goes on his father's computer in the middle of the night and "checks" the security to be sure we're not doing anything to get around HIS structures. This morning he threatened his father that if he ever finds out that Dad has put passwords, etc., in an "unprotected" area of his computer, Ty will see to it that there is a security breach that his father will regret. I mean, what in the heck it this???? I lock my computer in a secure briefcase when I am not using it.

He doesn't have reasonable conversations about differences. He gets all passive-aggressive and sends us snotty emails and writes nasty notes and leaves them around instead. If we violate one of his "rules" (which change almost daily) there may be hell to pay, but we never know when it's coming.

He was never able to live with a roommate in college, or since. Those relationships lasted a matter of weeks, before the roommate would go to the Residence Director and beg to be reassigned. Finally MIT gave up and gave him his own room. Interestingly, the Dean told us that this situation is not that unusual among their students...

He has never had a relationship with a female that lasted more than a few months. He expresses very negative attitudes about women, while still seeming to desire a relationship. The women ALWAYS dump him for being too weird, too demanding, too rigid, too miserly, etc. Such a shame because he's a very good looking guy, and I think if he got treatment he might be a reasonable spouse. I also think the women have been good for him, but I do admit that he probably isn't good for them. It makes me sad that he may end up alone in the world, because he drives away those around him.

He refuses to seek treatment for OCPD. It's not that he doesn't realize there is SOMETHING wrong, he just thinks it's a plus, since it makes him better than the rest of us.

His father is afraid to require him to get treatment, or require him to move out, because when Dad does this, Ty threatens to kill himself or to go away and never come back. This is all a manipulation, since I don't think Ty can survive without his Dad.

ANY criticism is met with rage. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time, since I never know what mood this guy will be in. When he is not stressed, he can be great - a lot of fun. I see the boy he used to be, the boy I loved all those years. When he doesn't live with us, it's fine, because he only comes over when he's happy and wants to see us. When he was in his moods, he just stayed home and kept to himself.

Now that he's unemployed, he is exhibiting what I am learning is classic OCPD behavior. He's been out of work for almost a year. He can't decide "what he wants to do next." He is "weighing his options." I don't know what to do to get him off the dime, since his father won't kick him out. It would have been better to make him stay self-supporting, since then his miserly ways would eventually have given him an incentive to get back to work. He wouldn't want to spend ALL of his savings. The last time he was unemployed and living with us it took 3 YEARS to get him out of here.

OK, glad to get that off my chest. Now I'll read the other posts and see if I can help someone!

[StepMom]

You asked if anyone has an idea of what can trigger severe OCPD. I have noticed with my stepson that when he is stressed, he gets almost impossible to live with. Now, LOTS of things stress this guy, but I have observed over the past 10 years or so that when he is productively engaged in work (or a personal project) that he enjoys and that provides him with intellectual stimulation (and a certain amount of recognition or sense of achievement) he can be absolutely delightful at home. It's like having that outlet gives him the level of control he needs, and he doesn't feel the need to control the people around him. HOWEVER, when things are not going well at work, or he doesn't have a project he enjoys or he gets bored, the OCPD kicks in with a vengeance and he is an absolute nightmare. The unfortunate thing here is that I do not control what he gets to do at work. So I can always tell when things are not going well at work, but I only get to deal with the result, I cannot make anything better.